PramAta and prameyA

The pramAta, is the atma.

PrameyA is clearly anAtma.

This is atma anAtma viveka.

PramAta and prameya also have fundamental differences.

PramAta is attributeless, prameya has attributes.

PramAta is aprameya, prameya is prama through pramAnas such as pratyaksa iti.

PramAta is 'asti' svarupa, by itself exists and has no  nAma rupA, Prameya is also 'asti' but comes with nAma rupA.

ShAstra calls pramAta atma as satyam, since it is independent, while prameya is mithya, since its astitiva is not its own.

You cannot find any prameya vastu, with its own astitiva.

Hence satyam, is atma alone.

Any mithya prameya vastu, we say it exists, due to the prama that it exists.

This prama that it exists is maya shakti.

It exists, when it is said, that is all of shrshti, with all of its knowledge.

This knowledge gains existence from the atma alone, which is astitva.

But atma is like a shining sun, which itself, does not become the prameya vastus.

So the prameya vastus, only appear to have their own astitva, it is a borrowed from atma.

By itself, in fact there is nothing other than atma, atma is advitiyam.

The mithya jagad, appears with atma as Ashraya.

By gnAna it is known that atma alone is real, therefore the mithya jagad is merely a khyAti or adhyAsa.

With the jagad adhyAsa, atma becomes pramAta, and also atma becomes the various vastus.

Also atma becomes parameshvara, and there is also a jiva, with ignorance upAdhi and so on.

Hence the jagad does not arise from brahman, rather jagad is a beginingless 'khyAti' or 'superimposition' which really speaking 'ends' with gnanam.

Since atma is sathyam, the pursuit of moksa stands negated, and there is nothing to pursue for the mukta , by way of achieving moksa.

All pursuits are as they naturally occur, and this is in order, since the jagad is orderly, and known as parameshvara.

A dedication to the pitrus

OM

Namaste to the venerable ones
The upholders of the pitru loka
This is a prayer from Shivaramakrishnan
The scion of Naidruva kashyapa gotra
Son of Subramaniam Shivaramakrishnan
And grandson of Shivaramakrishnan Subramaniam.

By the travails and accounts of endless karmas,
Was born myself, in the loka of manava.

Hail the great blessing of the pitrus
Whose blessings are the sole reason
For every son of the dynasty
To be continuing this great lineage

I make my prayers to you in despair
But with the strength of my gurus and the lords blessings
For you are the most esteemed ones,
And you are the most accomplished.

You are the great dAtAs of manava loka
You bless men folk with progeny
And good health and wealth
As well as with confidence

I do have a debt , that I repay.

I thought one day, how best to repay,
There are so many efforts that one can make


Conduct grand yagnas, an shine as a million suns
Do great punya yagnas, and earn the blessings of the devas
Be of great sevice to mankind, and to devas and pitrus
Should I not set an example to be worthy of your blessings

Forgive me for naivety in my young and early adulthood,
For what I had not found was my beloved guru
To the earlier question as to how best I repay
I shall narrate , that finding a guru is indeed the best way.

Men do try , with all their limited powers.
And limited knowledge, and limited friendships
Even if they go on to befriend the devas,
And indra and all the celestials
They shall also make enemies with the asuras,
They can never ever enjoy limitless freedom.

In each and every of our limited pursuits,
The pursuit has to be understood in clarity,
May I invoke lord mahaganapthy
The very icon and devata of clarity alone
Since he is the very remover of all vignAs or obstacles.

Such clarity he lent, by the blessings of the pitrus
To seek the limitless, in this limited loka.
What is the limitless, isnt that what we seek,
isnt that what you seek, oh beloved pitrus
the manes the fathers the great great grandfathers

Oh great karma yogins and follower of the vedas
All your efforts were for worshipping the lords
The great yagnas you performed and the greatness you achieved
We are forever in praise of you

But isnt it true the self is the most beloved
And all that you did was for praising brahman

The fire is brahman, and so is the laddle
The ghee that is poured is also brahman
The one who pours the ghee is non separate from brahman
and brahman alone is the results of the karma

So what is done is for the sake of brahman
And brahman alone does what is to be done
And how it is done is none other than brahman
What else one wants other than the limitless goal

All karmas are useful to attain the readiness
Attain the greatness that takes one to a guru
And it is indeed the fruits of your greatest penances
That I had the greatest fortune of meeting my guru in this life itself

OM Shri DakshinAmurtaye namaH
OM Shri Swami Paramarthananda Saraswatiye NamaH
OM Shri Dayananda Saraswati Swamine Namaha
OM Shri Svatmavidananda Saraswathi Swamineem NamaH
OM Shri Viditatmananda Saraswatiye Namaha
OM Shri Ramakrishnaya Namaha
OM Vigneshvaraya Namaha
OM Shri Lalithatripurasundari namaH
OM Shri GaneshAya namaH
OM Karthikeya Swamine NamaH
OM Bhagavan DevakiNandanAya namaH
OM RudrAya namaH

OM Shri BAlakrishnAya namaH
OM Shri Ayyappa Swamine NamaH

OM Shri Samartha Sadguru SainAthaya Namaha

HarihOM Shri gurubhyo NamaH Harih OM.

Such a guru whom I met in my lifetime,
Isnt it a fruit of your blessings alone
I know you can hear my plea
And you can hear my prayer
And you can respond since you are the blessed ones

Anger is always possible
But so is possible to bless and cool happiness
Swami Narsmha himself had cooled down
After such an ugra form
Into the benefic form of lord laksmi Narasmha

You who are the great devotees of lord nrsmha NArAyana
I plead thy to lend your ears and  your great attention
To this secret that my guru had taught me

Knowing the true value of a guru,
Here is what he taught me,
That I dedicate and pass onto you
In the true spirit of the guru SIshya tradition


OM, is the word, that denotes the three worlds.
It denotes the waking, dreaming and sleeping states.
It denotes the three bodies of a jiva.
It denotes the three bodies of ishvara.

OM is hence a name for the lord
The lord who is all pervasive
The lord whom you worship.

But this is only the direct meaning of OM

There is indeed an implied meaning for the word OM
And this is the meaning that was taught to me
By my exalted gurus ,
Who are brahmavids and shrotriya brahmaNishta

When I say 'I', the I is indeed atma
This atma is formless, shapeless, attributeless, limitless, consciousness that is different from known objects which are matter, and of the nature of limitlessness

Such an atma is the satyam, it is indeed the truth,
It alone exists, and nothing else exists whatsoever other than this atma

This atma is tvam, this atma is aham, this atma is tad

This atma is the basis on which,
The mithya jagad is sustained

All that is here, which is OM, is sustained, or exists with atma as the basis,
But all that is here, does not enjoy the same degree of reality as atma

While atma is truth the blemishless and beginingless truth
This world only seemingly exists, and enjoys its existence, with atma being the maker as well as the material,
That is what is parameshvara, parameshvara is indeed the parambrahman, which is atma.
The great intelligent being, bhagavan is atma,
And soham iti, so am I.

Where is duality, other than just a dream,
From the paramArthika pov, there is only blemishless truth,
Satyam Gnanam Anantham brahma.

What else is possibly there, other than Aham,

What else is their to achieve,
Is this to be achieved or to be known

Soham iti, is to be known
And only to remove ignorance,
Since soham is manifest as me,
as you of beloved pitrus
Tat Tvam Asi.

OM Shri Parvathi Pathaye, Hara Hara MahAdeva.

Astitiva and nama rupa

One problem is the problem with respect to existence of nama rupa, as separate from astitiva.

The word separate is a problem.

Separate should not be used, since separate conveys 'separation in terms of space'.

or 'separation in terms of time'.
With nama rupa, it is not like that.

We see a tree, we call it a tree, this is the vyavahara. This is how the universe is.

When one talks about what is it that has treeness, and says that treeness is chaitanyam, like pot and clay. there is an issue.

Pot is a name and a form, it is a knowledge.

Same way tree is a name and form, it is a knowledge, and in a tree there is infinite knowledge.
Limitless knowledge.

Name, within names with names.

Word and meaning, millions of words and meanings, each made possible by means of knowledge being operated and meanings mined.
This which is means of knowledge operating and mining meanings, IS.
That is ishvara.

That is how ishvara is, he is the karakas and the karanas, the instrument, means of knowledge, the knower as well as known object, is what ishvara IS.
This ishvara is by oneself, atma.

Atma is the ashraya, in the sense, of atma not being the underneath layer. There is no underneath layer for ishvara.

Underneath itself is a name, a word and meaning.

Then what is this atma. This atma is anantha, in all names and forms, that which is invariably present is sat, ISness, and satAnanta hence. This satananta, happens to be you, chit.

So we say that which is invariable present, not in terms of some invariable substance.

Like in clay pots, we say clay is invariable present, in a pot?? nono, clay is not present in a pot, rather pot IS clay. All of the pot is clay alone.

Same way all of the jagad, in any name and form, IS atma alone.

Atma is hence satAnanta, and happens to be oneself, hence chit.

Hence there need not be any vrtti to keep remembering about atma. What is here is atma, that is all. It is self evident, but the ignorance has to be removed.

The thing is that, in a gold chain and bangle, the fact that it is gold is known through seeing.
However, as far as jagad is concerned that fact that jagad is chaitanyam is not known through seeing, since seeing itself is chaitanyam seeing, 'seeing chaitanyam'.
Hence it is known through shabda pramana.
Shruti has to tell, ok, see all that you hear, see, shrotrasya shrotram, chakshushah chakshu, manso manoyat, tad brahma advayam aham asmi.

In the leaf, and the sky and the tree, inside of it is not atma, rather atma itself is leafy atma, skyii atma.

I need not see atma separately, since seeing is 'seeingy' atma.
I the seer is 'seery' atma.

How can such an atma, which is ever evident, but still hidden be revealed.

It is present, but hidden, How can that be. What is here is atma alone, but still it is hidden how can that be. That can be due to ignorance. I dont know that atma alone is, and atma is non dual.

That fact I dont seem to know, and shruti makes me know.

The knowledge

We have only functional knowledge. Knowing how to do karma, and how to quench hunger etc.
We know the means and ends, thats all. Knowledge of means and ends, is not really knowledge. It is simply a recognition that this is the means and this is the ends. It is preexisting shakti or power, which is gnana shakti.

However, the real gnanam is to know that which IS.

There is only one thing, which is what you are. You are transcending all this that you know. You are transendental reality.

Revel in this reality. Because that is your nature.

Mithya Nama Rupam

When we analyse our own experience, we can see aspects of experience.
Every experience means
1. Experiencer
2. Experience thought form
3. Experienced object
4. Awareness of difference beween all these 3

If you look at each knowledge
1. Experiencer

I know I am experiencer. Which means I have the status of being an experiencer of a thought modification in my mind.
I become experiencer w.r.t the vrtti and the object. For vrttii to take place there has to be a body mind self complex. This is also an experienced object.

Another aspect of experiencer is that, experiencer IS, the ISness. Also the experiencer is different from the experienced, in nature also. We recognize the fact, that the experiencer is aware of the experienced object, but the experienced object is not aware of the experiencer.
This makes the experiencer , fundamentally different in terms of quality from the experienced objects.
We hence call this aspect of being aware, or the ability to be aware, or the quality of awareness as non separate from the experiencer, and in fact intrinsic to the experiencer, the svarupa of the experiencer. This is a key point, which serves as a svarupa lakshana of the experiencer atma, a definition for the atma, that uniquely identifies atma. Mere awareness is not enough, since awareness, is in every living being. We will talk about the essential awareness later.

2. Experience thought form
Now this is another sort of object that the experiencer is aware of, but due to its subtle nature and its ability to remove ignorance, we call this vrtti out separately, instead of clubbing it with the experienced objects.
Vrtti has ability to remove ignorance.
Any vrtti hence comes with a shakti, a power, a capability, which is the capability to remove ignorance.
Ignorance for a jiva sareera, is natural, a jiva is born with this ignorance sharira, or ignorance present.

Also point to note is that, the experienced vrtti, also conveys another knowledge, that this vrtti IS. vrtti Asti, iti. This isness is also communicated by any knowledge vrtti.

3. Experienced object
This is the third component. This is the experienced object. Any object has a certain name, form, function which it has inherent to that object. This much is known to us through our brain, our karaka, we get this knowledge through a vrtti.
Now we also get to know the specifics of this power or name form and function of any object, again by employing the brain, and the karakas, the instruments of knowledge, they reveal the particular, name , form and function of the experienced object.

One again important thing, the karakas reveal is that the experienced object, also IS. The object IS, is our knowledge from the karakas , the instruments of knowledge themselves.

4. Awareness of difference

This difference awareness, is something the mind is capable of by itself, this seems to be the learning capacity of the mind, which the mind is endowed with.

The ignorance ( mula avidya)

Now in general, any human being takes it for granted, that these separate objects, which is experiencer, experienced, experience vrtti, the awareness of differences, means that, the objects are independent of each other, the 3 or 4 are independent of each other.
But we do not fully understand the meaning of the word independent, and without any analysis, we say they are independent, which means not related. That is also ok, they may not be related directly, we tend to agree they are perhaps related indirectly through natural cycles, this much we come to know from observation and science , that they are all related.
But still we believe, the moment an object has name form and function, its existence, is intrinsic to that particular name form and function. So we do a mix up of namarupa, with the astitiva.

This mix up, is purely an assumption, it is not obtained from any valid means of knowledge.

Due to mere proximity, we assume they are mixed up. We assume that every object has existence, that is unique to itself.

For example 'tree'. we believe, that which has 'treeness' is tree. Then that which has 'treeness' is it tree or non tree? We say non tree. Then non tree has treeness? Of course not, then is it something else? Of course it is the treeness vaala isness. What is the proof, no proof, no means of knowledge to claim that the trees isness is specific to the tree.
Nor do we have any means of knowledge to say that treeness IS when we say, that isness is related to the tree, we assume it is related.
This assumption is ignorance.

Shastra tells us otherwise. Shastra tells us, that the treeness IS when we say, the ISness is a borrowed isness. It is borrowed from a fundamental isness, which is the isness of oneself. oneself meaning the expriencer, that experiencer, who has the quality of awareness or consciousnesss, he is also ISness intrinsically and is also, limitless, as in, not having any specific attribute of itself. Like gold and gold jewellery.

This knowledge comes from a valid means of knowledge which is shruti or shastra.

Another issue is space. We say tree is in that co-ordinate. The co-ordinate is also further namarupa, the co-ordinate IS, that ISness is not dependent to be on the space co-ordinate. the isness is independent, isness, it is svarupa isness, it needs no evidence, it is no in turn dependent.

THe maya shakti , of experiencer , experienced and experience vrtti, is a manifestation, of knowledge, knowledge of names and forms, and for it to manifest, it needs an astitiva, astitiva alone provides a base to manifest upon. And this knowledge has to rest in a conscious being. The conscious being is I, is ishvara, is atma.

Any knowledge has its base in atma. Is atma in fact. What is knowledge, I know this tree IS.
What is this knowledge? It is a recognition. I say , I know. Which means absence of ignorance.
Ignorance means I dont know, but even here, I know ignorance, I know that I dont know.
So this I know, is inseparable.
I comes along with know.
But I know is a potential, it is not necessarily that I have to keep knowing something all that time, in order to be I.
So this one who has the potential for gnana, to be a gnani, is the gna dhatu, is the chit. since quite clearly , the jada does not have potential for gnana.
Hence all the nama rupas rest in ishvara, who is gnana svarupa, atma that is gnana svarupa.
So you look at ishvara as sarva gnana. All gnana.
Tree gnana, is ishvara as a tree.
Sky gnanan is ishvara as the sky.
So this tree knowledge manifest is nothing but atma. This sky knowledge manifest is also atma.
The knowledge is atma, and then a specific knowledge is manifest.

Gnana and bhakti

A bhakta who desires results waits for Darshan till results come , worships ishvara as results
A bhakta who prays without wanting anything strives for constant remembrance in various forms, and worships ishvaras forms
A bhakta who wants to know the lord , spends time in study of vedanta and tries to know ishvara as he really is, and worships ishvara as guru and the scriptures
A bhakta who has gained the knowledge , knows him as chaitanyam, and is ever non separate, as all that is here is chaitanyam.

Knowledge of Chaitanyam - 8 (Revisiting the pursuit of gnanam)

The previous post, made it known , that you are sathyam chaitanyam, the non dual consciousness, which is from the standpoint of totality , known as ishvara and from standpoint of an specific body mind called as jiva.

These standpoints, are purely from a mithya point of view. From the standpoint of mithya ishvara, and mithya jiva.

Even the ajnana, or ignorance of a jiva, is also mithya, and a mithya knowledge, from mithya ishvara, removes this ajanana.

When ajnana is removed, the self that you are, remains as you are, but you dont have any ignorance that you are body mind. As a matter of fact, being chaitanyam which is sathyam, you never ever were ignorant, never knowledgable.

Who you are, which shAstra calls as limtless chaitanyam and so on, has always been the same, changeless reality.

You are reality itself.

You were never 'really' ignorant, ignorance is mithya.
You never 'really' needed gnanam or knowledge, that is also mithya.
You never 'really' had to become free, both bondage and freedom is 'mithya'.

Do I need to tell you who you are, I AM. Om.